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tv   1976 Presidential Candidates First Debate  CSPAN  September 25, 2016 1:40am-3:41am EDT

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in closing, we wish you and your peoples lasting security and prosperity. we hope our organization will be able to regain the trust of the people by holding or upholding the provisions of the charter, which calls for respecting the sovereignty and independence of member states and ensuring noninterference in their internal affairs. this principle, if implemented, would lay the foundation for genuine and fair relations among nations after the greed and arrogance of some have shaken them to their core. thank you. [applause] >> i than the deputy prime minister and minister for foreign affairs and expatriates of the syrian arab republic for his statement.
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>> both bush and obama to some extent were prisoners of the situation. onouncer: this sunday night q&a, robert samuelson talks about his columns on business u.s.conomic issues and the economic performance under president obama. policies that essentially were aimed at buttressing his reputation and legacy and it seemed to me, undermined general confidence. onouncer: sunday night c-span's q&a. 1976 debate between gerald ford and jimmy carter. then, jimmy carter and ronald
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reagan in 1980. after that, the debate when al gore in george w. bush. president gerald ford and former georgia governor jimmy carter debated in philadelphia. it was the first presidential sittingeaturing eight president. debate, tvend of the interviewers interviewed during an audio loss. this is to hours. edwin newman, moderator: good evening. i'm edwin newman, moderator of this first debate of the 1976 campaign between gerald r. ford of michigan, republican candidate for president, and jimmy carter of georgia, democratic candidate for president. we thank you, president ford and we thank you, governor carter, for being with us tonight. there are to be three debates between the presidential
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candidates and one between the vice-presidential candidates. all are being arranged by the league of women voters education fund. tonight's debate, the first between presidential candidates in sixteen years and the first ever in which an incumbent president has participated, is taking place before an audience in the walnut street theater in philadelphia, just three blocks from independence hall. the television audience may reach a hundred million in the united states and many millions overseas. tonight's debate focuses on domestic issues and economic policy. questions will be put byk reynolds of abc news, james gannon of the wall street journal, and elizabeth drew of the new yorker magazine. under the agreed rules the first go to governor carter, that was decided by the toss of a coin. he will laugh -- he will have up to three minutes to answer one , follow-up question will be
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permitted with up to two minutes to reply. president ford will then have two minutes to respond. the next question will go to president ford with the same time arrangements, and questions will continue to be alternated between the candidates. each man will make a three-minute statement at the end, governor carter to go first. president ford and governor carter do not have any notes or prepared remarks with them this evening. mr. reynolds, your question for governor carter. mr. reynolds: mr. president, governor carter. governor, in an interview with the associated press last week, you said you believed these debates would alleviate a lot of concern that some voters have about you. well, one of those concerns, not an uncommon one about candidates in any year. many voters say they do not know where you stand. now, you have made jobs your number one priority and you have said you are committed to a drastic reduction in unemployment. can you say now, governor, in specific terms, what your first step would be next january, if you are elected, to achieve that.
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mr. carter: yes. first of all, to recognize the tremendous economic strength of this country and set about putting people back to work as a top priority. tos is an effort that ought be done primarily by strong leadership in the white house, the inspiration of our people, the tapping of the business, agriculture, industry, labor, and government at all levels to work on this project. we will never have an end to an inflationary spiral and we'll never have a balanced budget until we get our people back to work. there are several things that can be done specifically that are not being done. first of all, to channel research and development funds into areas that will provide uh large numbers of jobs. secondly, we need to have a commitment in the private sector to cooperate with government in matters like housing. investment ofmall taxpayers money in the housing
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field can bring large numbers of extra jobs and guarantee programs fors and housing for older people and so forth to cut down 20% unemployment that exists in the construction industry. needs anding is our the central cities where unemployment is extremely high. sometimes among minority groups are those who don't speak english, or who are black, or young people. 40% of the employment. here, they should channel money into the sharing with private sector and local and state governments to employ young people who are out of work. another very important aspect of our economy would be to increase production in every way possible, to hold down taxes on individuals and shifted the tax burdens on to those who avoided pity -- paying taxes in the past. -- specific things,
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none of which have being done now. there is an additional factor that needs to be covered to singly. to make sure we have a good relationship between management, business on the one hand, and labor, on the other. unemployment is very high, we might channel specifically targeted job opportunities by paying part of the salary of unemployed people. and also, sharing with local governments the payment of salaries which would let us cut down the employment rate much lower before we hit the inflationary level. that i believed by the end of the first four years of the next term we can have unemployment down to 3%, 4.5% overall. a controlled inflation rate, and the balance growth of 4% to 6%, around 5%, which gives us a balanced budget.
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mr. reynolds: governor in the , event you are successful and you do it you adjusted drop, beckett create additional pressure? what about price controls? we have such a low utilization of productive capacity, the lowest since the great depression years. in such a high and employment rate now, 7.9%, that we have a long way to go in getting people to work before we have inflationary pressures. it will not be easy -- i would of a givenhe payment fixed income to people unless they are not able to work. incentives, in -- we can build up income levels
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and thee poverty level more profitable than work. mr. newman: mr. president, your response? mr. ford: i don't believe that uh that mr. carter's been any more specific in this case than he has been on many other instances. i noticed particularly that he did not endorse the humphrey-hawkins bill which he has on occasions and which is included as a part of the democratic platform. that legislation allegedly would help our unemployment. know that would have controlled our economy and would to $30ded $10 billion billion each year, in addition to expenditures by the federal government. it would've called for export controls on agricultural products. in my judgment, the best way to get jobs, is to expand the
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private sector. where five out of six jobs today exist in our economy. that by reducing federal taxes as i proposed about a year ago when i called for a tax reduction of $28 billion. three quarters of a to go to private taxpayers and one quarter to the business sector. we could add to jobs in the major metropolitan areas by a proposal that would give tax incentives to business to move into the inter--- the inner-city. and to expand or build new plants so they could take a plant or expand the plant where people are, and people are currently unemployed. we could help our youths with proposals that would give to young people an opportunity to work and learn at the same time, just like we give money to young people were going to college.
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those are the kind of specifics that i think we have to discuss on these debates. and these are the kinds of programs that i will talk about on my time. mr. newman: mr. gannon, your question to president ford. mr. gannon: mr. president, i would like to continue for a moment on this question of taxes you have raised. you have said you favor more tax cuts for middle income thoseans, even though earning up to $30,000 a year. that presumably would cost the treasury quite a bit of money and lost revenue. in view of the very large budget debts -- deficits you have accumulated that are still in prospect, how is it possible to promise further tax cuts and to reach your goal of balancing the budget? mr. ford: at the time, mr. gannon, that i made the recommendation for a $28 billion tax-cut, three quarters of a to go to individual taxpayers, 25% to american business, i said at
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the same time that we had to hold the lid an federal spending, that for every dollar of a tax reduction we had to have an equal reduction in federal expenditures. a one-for-one proposition. and i recommended that to the congress with a budget ceiling $395 billion, and that would have permitted us to have a $25 billion tax reduction. fory tax reduction program middle-income taxpayers, i recommended that the congress increase personal exemptions from the $750 per person, to $1000 per person. that would mean, of course, that for a family of four that that family would have $1000 more personal exemption. money that they could spend for their own purposes. money that the government would not have to spend. but if we keep the lid on
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federal spending, which i think we can, with the help of congress, we can justify fully a $28 billion tax reduction. in the budget that i submitted to the congress in january of this year, i recommended a 50% cut back and the rate of growth of federal spending. for the last 10 years, the budget of the united states has grown from about 11% per year. we can't afford that kind of growth in federal spending. in the budget i recommended, we cut it in half. the growth rate of 5% to 5.5%. with that kind of limitation on federal spending, we can fully justified the tax reductions that i have proposed. it seems to me with the stimulant of more money in the hands of the taxpayers and with , more money in the hands of business to expand, to modernize, to provide more jobs,
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our economy will be stimulated so that we will get more revenue and have a more prosperous economy. mr. gannon: mr. president, to follow up a moment. congress has passed the tax bill which is before you now. which did not meet exactly the sort of outline you requested. what is your intention on that bill, since it does not meet your requirements? i you planning to sign that bill? mr. ford: that tax bill does not entirely meet the criteria that i established. i think the congress should have added another $10 billion reduction in personal income taxes, including the increase of personal to $1000. from $750 congress could have done that if the budget committees of the congress and congress as a whole had not increased the spending
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that i recommended in the budget. i am sure you know that in the resolutions passed by the congress, they have added about , bybillion in more spending the congress over the budget that i recommended. so i would prefer in that tax bill to have an additional tax cut and a further limitation on federal spending. this tax bill that has not reached the white house yet, but is expected in a day or two is about 1500 pages. it has some good provisions in some that i have recommended, unfortunately. havee other hand, when you a bill of that magnitude with those many revisions, a president has to sit and decide if there is more good than bad. and from the analysis that i have made so far, it seems to me
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that that tax bill does justify my signature and my approval. mr. newman: governor carter, your response. mr. carter: well, mr. ford is changing considerably his previous philosophy. the present tax structure is a disgrace to this country, it is just a welfare program for the rich. as a matter fact, 25% of the to theax reductions go 1% of the richest people in this country. and over 50% of the tax credits go to the four per's -- 14% of the richest people in this country. when mr. ford first became president in august of 1974, the first thing he did in october was to ask for a $4.7 billion increase in taxes on our people in the midst of the heaviest recession since the great depression of the 1940's. in january 1975 he asked for a tax change, a $5.6 billion increase on low-and-middle-income private
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individuals, a $6.5 billion decrease on the corporations and the special interest. vetoedmber of 1975 he the $20 billion tax reduction bill that had been passed in congress. and he came back later in january of this year and advocated a $10 billion tax reduction and to be offset by a $6 billion increase this coming in deductions for social january security payments and for unemployment compensation. the whole philosophy of the republican party, including my opponent, has been the pylon taxes on low income people to take them off of operations. in a matter -- as a matter of fact, since the late 1960's and mr. nixon took office, we have had a decrease in the percentage of taxes paid by corporations from 30% down to about 20%. we have had an increase in taxes , payrollndividuals taxes, percent up to 20% mr.
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mr. this is why tax form is so important. newman: mrs. drew, your question to governor carter. ms. drew: governor carter, you proposed a number of new or enlarged programs, including jobs, health, welfare reform, child care, aid to education, aid to cities, changes in social security and housing subsidies. you've also said that you wanna balance the budget by the end of your first term. now you haven't put a price tag on those programs, but even if we price them conservatively and we count for full employment by the end of your first term, and we count for the economic growth that would occur during that period, there still isn't enough money to pay for those programs and balance the budget by any - any estimates that i've been able to see. so, in that case what would give? mr. carter: well, as a matter of fact there is. if we assume the rate of growth of our economy, equivalent to what resident johnson, president kennedy, even before the the enemy's war -- if we assume that at the end of the four-year
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period we could cut down unemployment to four and half 4.5% -- under those circumstances even assuming no , elimination of unnecessary programs and assuming an increase in the allotment of money to finance programs, increasing as the inflation rate does -- my economic projections, i think confirmed by the house dollars can action be spent in the fiscal year of 1981, which will be the last year of this term. within that $60 billion increase, they were be fit programs i promised the american people. these are reasonable goals, i would cut back on the rate of implementation of new programs in order to accommodate a balanced budget by fiscal year 1981, which is the last year of the next term. i believe we ought to have a balanced budget during normal economic circumstances.
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these projections have been carefully made. i stand behind them. if they are slightly on the downside, i will phase in the programs that we have advocated, more slowly. ms. drew: governor, according to the budget committees of the congress committees and that you referred to, if we get a full employment, 4%, and allowing for inflation in the programs, there were not be anything more than a surplus of $5 billion by the end of 1981. and conservative estimates of your program would be about $85 billion to $100 billion. how you say you're going to be up to these things and balance the budget? assumption ise the rate of growth in our economy. ms. drew: no, they took that into account in those figures.
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mr. carter: i believe it is accurate to say that a 5% -- growth rate in our economy that they projected, a $60 billion ,ncrease that they would spend in that framework it would be fit. there are improvements in the programs. control over unnecessary spending, obsolescent programs. the present bureaucratic structure, i finally the president, that will be a tough part to revise. to make it manageable for a budgeting -- institute zero-based budgeting which i used four years in georgia, which assesses every
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program every year. projections we will have a balanced budget by fiscal year of 1981, if i am elected president. keep my promises to the american people. and it's just predicated on very modest, but i think accurate, projections of employment increases and growth in our national economy equal to what was experienced under kennedy, johnson, before the vietnam war. mr. newman: president ford. if it is true that there will be a $60 billion surplus by fiscal year rather 1981, than spend that money for all the new programs that governor carter recommends and endorses, and which are included in the democratic platform, i think the american taxpayer ought to get an additional tax break. a tax reduction of that magnitude. i feel that the taxpayers of the ones that need the relief.
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i do not think we should add programs of the magnitude the governor carter talks about. it seems to me that our tax structure today has rates that e are too high. but a.m. glad to point out that since 1969, during a republican administration, we have had ten million people taken off of the tax rolls at the lower end of the taxpayer area. and at the same time, assuming that i sign the tax bill that was mentioned by mr. gannon, we will in the last two tax bills have increased the minimum tax on all wealthy taxpayers. and i believe that by eliminating 10 million taxpayers in the last eight years, and by putting a heavier tax burden on those in the higher tax brackets, plus the other actions
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that of been taken, we can give taxpayers adequate tax relief. as we look at the recommendations of the budget committee and our own projections, there is not going to be any $60 billion dividend. i have heard of those dividends in the past. it always happens. we expected one at the time of the vietnam war, but it was used up before we ever ended the war and taxpayers never got the adequate relief they deserved. mr. newman: mr. reynolds. mr. reynolds: mr. president, when you came into office you spoke very eloquently of the need for a time for healing, and very early in your administration you went out to chicago and you announced, you proposed a program of a case-by-case pardon for draft resisters to restore them to full citizenship. some 14,000 young men took
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advantage of your offer, but another 90,000 it not. in granting the pardon to former president nixon, sir, part of your rationale was to put watergate behind us. two, if i may quote you again truly end our long national , nightmare. why does not the same rationale apply now, today, in our bicentennial year, to the young men who resisted in vietnam, and many of them still in exile abroad? mr. ford: the amnesty program that i recommended in chicago in september of 1974 would give to all drafty baiters and military deserters the opportunity to earn their good record back. about 14,000 to 15,000 it take advantage of the program. we gave them ample time. i am against an across-the-board pardon of drafty baiters are military deserters.
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now in the case of mr. and it nixon, the pardon was given. when i took office the country was very divided. there is hatred, divisiveness, people who lost faith in our government in many respects. mr. nixon resigned, and i became president. it seemed to me that i was to to me that if adequately and effectively handle the problems of high inflation, a growing recession, the involvement of the united states still in vietnam, but i had to give 100% of my time to major problems. resigned, that is a disgrace. the first president out of thirty-eight that ever resigned from public office, under pressure.
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so when you look at the penalty that he paid, and when you analyze the requirements that i had to spend all of my time working on the economy, which was in trouble, that i inherited , working on our problems in southeast asia, which were still plaguing us, it seems to me that mr. nixon had been penalized enough by his resignation in disgrace and the need, and necessity for me to concentrate on the problems of the country fully justified the action that i took. mr. reynolds: i take it then, sir, that you do not believe that you are going to reconsider and think about those 90,000 four still abroad, had they not been penalized enough, they have been there for years? mr. ford: well, mr. carter has indicated he would give a blanket pardon to all drafty baiters. i do not agree with that point of view. i gave, in september of 1974, an
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opportunity for all draft evaders, all deserters, to come in voluntarily, clear their records by earning an opportunity to restore their good citizenship. i think we gave them a good opportunity. i do not think we should go any further. mr. newman: governor carter. i think it is very difficult for president ford to explain the difference between the pardon of president nixon, and is amnesty for the draft laws. fact, i do not advocate amnesty, i advocate pardon. there is a difference, in my opinion. in accordance with the ruling of the supreme court and the definition in the dictionary. amnesty means that what you did was right. pardon means that what you did, whether it's right or wrong,
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you are forgiven for it. and i do advocate a pardon for draft evaders. i think it is accurate to say when theyo years ago put in this amnesty, three times as many deserters were excused as were the ones who evaded the draft. but i think that now is the time to heal our country after the vietnam war and i think that what the people are concerned about is not the pardon or amnesty of those who evaded the draft, but whether or not our crime system is fair. we have a sharp distinction drawn between white-collar crime, the big shots were rich and influential and seldom go to jail, and those were poor and have no influence and quite often are the ones were punished. the whole subject of crime is one that concerns are people very much. i believe that the fairness of is a major problem that
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addresses our leader, and this is something that has not been addressed adequately by the administration. but i hope to have a complete completeility on my responsibility on my shoulders to help bring about a fair criminal justice system and bring about an end to the divisiveness that has occurred in our country as a result of the vietnam war. mr. newman: mr. gannon. mr. gannon: governor carter, you have promised a sweeping overhaul of the federal government, including a reduction in the number of government agencies, you said would go down about 200 from some 1900. that sounds like a deep cut in the federal government. isn't that a fact that you are not talking about fewer federal employees or less government spending, but rather that you are talking about reshaping the federal government, not making it smaller?
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mr. carter: well, i've been through this before, mr. gannon, as the governor of georgia. when i took aver we had uh a -- we had a bureaucratic mess, like we have in washington now. , fully300 agencies budgeted, all having responsibility to carry out that was in conflict. when we cut those 300 agencies substantially, we eliminated 2078 of them, we set up a simple structure of government to be administered fairly and it was a tremendous success. it has not been undone. it resulted in an ability to reshape our court system, prison system, education system and mental health programs. our people once again understanding control of our government. i will do the same thing if elected president. when i get to washington, coming in as an outsider, one of the major responsibilities that i will have on my shoulder is a
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complete reorganization of the executive branch of government. a greatly expanded white house staff. when mr. nixon went in office, for instance, we had $3.5 million spent on the white house staff. escalated now to $16.5 million in the republican administration. this needs to be changed, we need the responsibilities back on the cabinet members. we also need to have a great in agencies and programs. for instance, we now in the health area have 300 two different programs administered by 11 major departments and advisory 60 other commissions responsible for this. , medicares one agency is another one. it is hard to have a good health program. we have just advocated in this consolidation of
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responsibilities for energy. our country now has no comprehensive energy program or policy. we have twenty different agencies in the federal government responsible for the production come other regulation, the information about energy and the conservation of energy. it is spread all over the government. this is a gross waste of money. so tough, competent management of government, giving us a simple efficient purposeful and manageable government would be a great step forward. if i am elected, and i intend to be, it will be done. mr. gannon: well, i'd like to press my question on the number of federal employees whether you , would really plan to reduce the overall number, or merely put them in different departments and relabel them. in your energy plan you consolidate a number of agencies into one, or you would. but does that really change the overall? mr. carter: i can't say for sure that we would have fewer federal
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employees when i go out of office then when i came in. it took me about three years to completely reorganize the georgia government. the last year i was in office our budget was actually yes then it was a year before. showed a great improvement. we also had a 2% increase in a number of employees lester. it was a tremendous shift from an administrative jobs into the delivery of services. we completely revise our prison system. we established 84 new mental health treatment centers. and we shifted people out of administrative jobs into the field to deliver better services. the same thing will be done at the federal government level. withomplish this substantial reductions in employees in some departments. in the transportation department we cut back 25% of the total number of employees. in giving people better mental health care, we increase the number of employees to read but
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the efficiency and simplicity of it, the ability of people to understand their own government and control it, was a substantial benefit derived from complete reorganization. at the got to do this federal government level. if we do not, the bureaucratic mess will continue. there is no way for our people not to understand what the government is our get an answer to a question. when you come to washington as a governor to begin a new program for your people, like the treatment of drug addicts, i found there were 13 different federal agencies i had to go to to manage the drug treatment program. government, we only had one agency responsible for drug treatment. this is the kind of change that would be made. it would be of tremendous benefit in long-range planning, in tight budgeting, saving the taxpayers' money, making the government more efficient, cutting down on bureaucratic waste, having a clear delineation of authority and responsibility of employees, and giving our people a better chance to understand and control
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their government. mr. newman: president ford. mr. ford: i think the record should show, mr. newman, the bureau of census, we checked the yesterday, indicates that enough for years that governor carter was governor of the state of georgia, expenditures by the government went up over 50%. employees of the government in georgia during his term of office when up over 25%. show theigures also bonded indebtedness of the state of georgia during his governorship went up over 20%. and there was some very interesting testimony given by governor carter's successor, governor busby, before a senate onmittee a few months ago how he found the medicaid program when he came into office following governor carter.
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he testify, and these are his words, the present governor of georgia, he says he found the medicaid program in georgia in shambles. now let me talk about what we've done in the white house as far as federal employees are concerned. the first order that i issued after i became president was to cut or eliminate the perspective 40,000 increase in federal employees that had been scheduled by my predecessor. and in the term that i have been years, we some two have reduced federal employment by 11,000. itself,hite house staff when i became president, we had roughly 540 employees. we now have about 485 employees. so we made a rather significant reduction in the number of employees on the white house staff working for the president. so i think our record of cutting
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back employees, plus the failure on the part of the governor's programs to actually save employment in georgia, shows which is the better plan. mr. newman: mrs. drew. ms. drew: mr. president, at vail, after the republican convention, you announced that you would now emphasize five new areas among those were jobs and , housing and health and improved recreational facilities for americans. and you also added crime. and you mentioned education. for two years you've been telling us that we couldn't do very much in these areas because we cannot afford it, and in fact we do have a $50 billion deficit now. in rebuttal to governor carter a little bit earlier, you said that if there were to be any surplus in the next few years you thought it should be turned back to the people in the form of tax relief. so how are you going to pay for any new initiatives in these areas you announced at vail you were going to now stress? years,d: in the last two
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as i indicated before, we had a very tough time. we were faced with heavy inflation, over 12%. we were faced with substantial unemployment. the last 24 months we have turned the economy around and brought inflation down to under 6%. -- we havee reduced added employment of about 4 million in the last 17 months, to the point where we have 88 million people working in america today, the most in the history of the country. the net result is, we are going to have improvements in our receipts. and i think we will have decrease in our disbursements. have a lower deficit in fiscal year 1978. we feel that with this improvement in the economy, we feel that with more receipts and
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fewer disbursements, we can, and a moderate way, increase, as i recommended it, over the next 10 years, a new parks program that 1.5 billion- cost dollars, doubling our national park system. we have recommended that in the housing program, we can reduce down payments and moderate monthly payments. but that does not cost any more, as far as the federal treasury is concerned. we believe that we can do a better job in the area of crime. but that requires a tougher surge ing, mandatory prison sentences for those who violate our criminal laws. we believe that you can revise the federal criminal code, which is not been revised and a good many years. that does not cost any more money. can doeve that you something more effectively with a moderate increase in money in
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the drug abuse program. we can that in education have a slight increase, not a major increase. it's my understanding that governor carter has indicated that he approves of a $30 expenditure by the federal government, as far as education is concerned. at the present time, we're $3.5 billion.ly i do not know where that money would come from. but if we look at the quality of life programs, jobs, health, education, crime, recreation, we feel that as we move forward with a healthier economy, we can absorb the small, necessary costs that will be required. ms. drew: sir, in the next few years would you try to reduce the deficit, would you spend
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more money far these programs that you have just outlined, or would you, as you said earlier, return whatever surplus you got to the people in the form of tax relief? mr. ford: we feel that with the programs i have recommended, the additional $10 billion tax cut, with the moderate increases in the quality-of-life area, we can still have a balanced budget which i will submit to the congress in january of we won't 1978. wait one year or two years longer, as governor carter indicates. as the economy improves, and it is improving, our gross national product this year will average about 6% increase over last year. we will have the lower rate of for the calendar year this year, something slightly under 6%. employment will be up, revenues will be up. we'll keep the lid on some of
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these programs that we can hold down as we have a little extra money to spend for those quality-of-life programs which i think are needed and necessary. now i cannot, and would not, endorse the kind of program that governor carter recommends. he endorses the democratic platform, which, as i read it, calls for approximately 60 additional programs. we estimate that those programs would add $100 billion minimum, and probably, $200 billion maximum, each year to the federal budget. you cannotams afford, and give tax relief. we feel that you can hold the -- restrainrain federal spending give a tax , reduction and still have a balanced budget by 1978. mr. newman: governor carter.
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mr. carter: well, mr. ford takes the same attitude that republicans always take. in the last three months before an election, there always for the problem -- programs that they always fight the other 3.5 years. hooverber when herbert was against jobs for people and when alf landon was against social security. president nixon, sixteen years ago, was telling the public that john kennedy's proposals would bankrupt the country and would double the cost. the best thing is to look at the record of mr. ford's administration and mr. nixon's before his. last year we had $865 billion deficit, the largest in our country's huge -- history. more of a deficit spending than we had in the entire eight-year period under president johnson and president kennedy. we've got 500,000 more americans out of jobs today than they were three months ago.
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since mr. ford's been in office two years, we've had a 50 percent increase in unemployment from 5 million people out of work, ted 2.5 million, more people out of work and a total of 7.5 million. he has four times the size of the depth -- deficits that mr. nixon even had himself. this uh talking about more people at work, is distorted because with a 14% increase in the cost of living in the last two years, it means that women and young people have had to go to work when they did not want to. that is because their fathers do not make enough to pay the increased cost of food, housing, clothing. alone,last two years $120 billion total deficits under president ford. at the same time, we have had in the last eight years, a doubling in the number of bankruptcies for small businesses. negative growth in our national economy, measured in real dollars. the take-home pay of a worker in
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this country is actually less now than it was in 1968, measured in real this is the dollars. kind of record that's there and talk about the future and a drastic change or conversion on the part of mr. ford as of last minute is one that just doesn't go. mr. newman: mr. reynolds. mr. reynolds: governor carter, i would like to turned what we call the energy crisis. yesterday a british government commission on air pollution, but one headed by a nuclear physicist, recommended that any further expansion of nuclear energy be delayed in britain as long as possible. this is a subject that is quite controversial among our own people, and there seems to be a clear difference between you and the president on the use of nuclear power plants. would you say -- which you say you would use as a last priority. why, sir, are they unsafe? mr. carter: well among my other experiences in the past, i have been a nuclear engineer and did
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graduate work in the field. i know the capabilities and limitations of atomic power. the energy policy of our nation is one that is not yet been established under this administration. almost every other developed nation in the world has an energy policy except us. the crisis of 1973 it was supposed to be a temporary agency, now it is permanent, anonymous, growing every day. i think the wall street journal reported they have 112 public relations experts trying to justify to the american people its own existence. we have to have a form way to handle the energy question. the reorganization proposal that i have before it is one first step. in addition, we have about 35 years worth at left of oil in the whole world. we're gonna run out of oil. when made his famous speech
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on operation independence, we were importing 35% of our oil. now we have increase of that amount to 25%, and important about 45% of our oil. we need to shift from oil to coal. we need to concentrate our research and development efforts on coal burning and extraction with safer minds, and cleanburning. we need to shift very strongly toward solar energy and have strict conservation measures. and then as a last resort only, continue to use atomic power. i would not cut out atomic power altogether. we cannot afford to give up that opportunity until later. but to the extent that we continue to use atomic power, i would be responsible as president to make sure that the instance, we need to have the reactor core below ground sealed, and a heavy vacuum maintain. there ought to be a standardized design.
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there has to be a full-time atomic energy specialist, independent of the control room, 24 hours a day to shut down a plant if an abnormality develops. , alonginds of procedures with evacuation procedures and insurance ought to be initiated. so, shift from oil to coal, emphasize research and development on coal use and also on solar power, strict conservation measures, not yield every time that the special interest groups put pressure on the president like this administration has done and use , atomic energy only as a last resort with the strictest possible safety precautions. that's the best overall energy policy in the brief time we have to discuss it. mr. reynolds: well governor, on that same subject, would you require mandatory conservation efforts to try to conserve fuel? mr. carter: yes, i would. some of the things that can be done about this is a change in the rate of structure of electric power companies. we encourage people to waste electricity, giving the lowest rates to the biggest users.
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we do nothing to cut down on peak load requirements. we don't have an adequate requirement for the insulation of homes, for the efficiency of automobiles. whenever automobile manufacturers come forward and say they cannot meet amendments the congress has put forward this republican administration , has delayed the implementation dates. in addition to that, we ought to have a shift toward the use of coal, particularly in appellation regions where coal is located. a lot of very high quality, low carbon coal, low sulfur coal is there. it is where employment is needed. that would help a great deal. so, mandatory conservation measures, yes. encouragement by the president for people to voluntarily conserve, yes. and as for the private sector, ought to be encouraged to bring forward to the public the benefits from efficiency. washington, gives lower interest loans for people who adequately insulate their
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homes or who buy efficient automobiles. and some major manufacturing companies like dow chemical, effectivegh very efficiency mechanisms cut and the use of energy by as much as 40% with the same out product. these kinds of things ought to be done, encouraged and supported, and even required, by the government. mr. newman: president ford. mr. ford: governor carter skims over a very serious and a very broad subject. in january of 1975, i submitted to the congress and to the american people the first comprehensive energy program recommended by any president. a call for an increase in the production of energy in the united states. they called for conservation measures so that we would save the energy that we have. if you're going to increase
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domestic oil and gas production, and we have to, you have to give to those producers an opportunity to develop their lands or their wells. i recommended to the congress that we should increase production in this country from onemillion tons a year, to point 2 billion tons by 1985. in order to do that, we have to improve our extraction of coal from the ground. we have to improve our utilization of coal, make it more efficient and cleaner. in addition, we have to expand our research and development. in my program for energy independence, we have increased solar energy research from about $84 million a year to about a -- to about $120 million a year.
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we are going as fast as the experts say we should. a nuclear power, we have increased research and .evelopment very substantially, to ensure that our nuclear power plants are safer, that they are more efficient, and that we have adequate safeguards. i think you have to have a greater oil and gas production, more coal production, more nuclear production, and in addition, you have to have energy conservation. mr. newman: mr. gannon. mr. gannon: mr. president, i'd like to return for a moment to this problem of unemployment. you have vetoed or threatened to veto number of job bills passed or in development in the democratic-controlled congress. yet the same time, the government is paying out, $17 billion, perhaps $20 billion a year in unemployment compensation caused by the high unemployment. why do you think it is better to
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pay out unemployment compensation to idle people than to put them to work in public service jobs? mr. ford: the bills that i vetoed, the one for an additional $6 billion, was not a bill that would have solved our unemployment problems. even the proponents of it admitted that no more than 400,000 jobs would be made available. somethingis indicates in the magnitude of about 150,000 to 200,000 jobs be made available. each one of those jobs would've $25,000.taxpayer in addition, the jobs would not be available right now. they would not have materialized for about nine months to 18 months. problem we have, is to stimulate our economy now
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so that we can get rid of unemployment. what we have done is hold the lid on spending in an effort to reduce the rate of inflation. and we have proven i think very , conclusively, that you can reduce the rate of inflation and increased jobs. for example, as i have said, we have added some four million jobs in the last 17 months. we have no employed 88 million people in america, the largest number in the history of the united states. we have added 500,000 jobs in the last two months. inflation is the quickest way to destroy jobs. by holding the lid on federal tonding, we have been able do a good job, and affirmative job, in inflation. and as a result, have added to
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jobs in this country. i think it is also appropriate to point out that through our tax policies, we have stimulated , added employment throughout the country. the investment tax credit, the tax incentives for expansion and modernization of our industrial capacity. that theopinion private sector where five out of , six jobs are, where you have permanent jobs, with the opportunity for advancement, is a better place than make-work jobs under the program recommended by the congress. mr. gannon: just to follow up, mr. president, the congress has just passed a $3.7 billion appropriation bill to provide money for the public works jobs program you earlier tried to kill by your veto of the authorization legislation. in light of the fact that i wonderent is rising,
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if you have rethought the question at all, whether you would consider allowing this program to be funded, or will you veto that money bill? mr. ford: well, that bill has not yet come down to the oval office, so i am not in a position to make any judgment on it tonight. but that is an extra $4 billion deficit,d add to the which would add to the inflationary pressures, which would help destroy jobs in the private sector, not make jobs, where the jobs really are. these make-work, temporary jobs are not as they are, the kind of jobs that we want for our people. i think it is interesting to that in the two years that i have been president, i have vetoed 56 bills. congress has sustained 42 vetoes.
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as a result, we have saved over $9 billion in federal expenditures. and the congress by overriding the bills that i did veto, the congress has added some $13 billion to the federal expenditures and to the federal deficit. now, governor carter complains about the deficits that this administration has had. and yet, he condemns the vetoes that i have made that have saved $9 billion, and could have saved an additional $13 billion. now he cannot have it both ways. therefore, it seems to me that we should hold the lid, as we have, to the best of our ability so we can stimulate the private economy and get the jobs where the jobs are, five out of six in this economy. mr. newman: governor carter. mr. carter: well, mr. ford
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doesn't seem to put into perspective the fact that when 500,000 more people are out of work then there were three months ago, while we have 2.5 million more people out of work then when he took office, this touches human beings. i was in a city in pennsylvania not too long ago near here, and there were about 4000 or 5000 people in the audience on the train trip. i said "how many adults here are , out of work?" about 1000 raised their hands. mr. ford actually have fewer people in private sector in non-farm jobs than when he took office. still he talks about success. 7.9% unemployment is a terrible tragedy in this country. he says he is learned that a match that with inflation. that is right. we have the greatest inflation
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we have had in 25 years, except under this administration. and that was 50 years ago. we have the highest unemployment we have had under mr. ford's administration, since the great depression. this affects human beings, and his insensitivity in providing those people a chance to work has made this a welfare administration, and not a work administration. he has not saved $9 billion with his vetoes, there has been only a net savings of and the cost in $4 billion. unemployment compensation, welfare compensation, and lost revenues has increased $23 billion in the last two years. this is a typical attitude that causes havoc in people's lives, and it is covered over naturally by saying our country has it's a travesty. it shows a lack of leadership. and we've never had a president since the war between the states that vetoed more bills. mr. ford has vetoed four times as many bills as mr. nixon -- per year. and eleven of 'em have been overridden. one of his bills that was
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overridden -- he only got one vote in the senate and seven votes in the house, from republicans. mr. newman: governor carter. so this shows a breakdown in leadership. mr. newman: under the rules, i must stop you there. and mrs. drew. ms. drew: governor carter, i'd like to come back to the subject of taxes. you have said that you want to cut taxes for the middle and lower income groups. mr. carter: right. ms. drew: but unless you're willing to do such things as reduce the itemized deductions for charitable contributions or home mortgage payments, or interest, or taxes, or capital gains, you can't really raise sufficient revenue to provide an overall tax cut of any size. so how are you gonna provide that tax relief that you're talking about? mr. carter: now we have such a grossly unbalanced tax system -- as i said earlier, that it is a disgrace of all the tax -- benefits now, 25 percent of 'em go to the 1 percent of the richest people in this country. over 50 percent -- 53 to be exact -- percent of the tax
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benefits go to the 14 percent richest people in this country, and we've had a 50 percent increase in payroll deductions since mr. nixon went in office eight years ago. mr. ford has -- has advocated since he's been in office over $5 billion in reductions for corporations, special interest groups, and the very, very wealthy who derive their income -- not from labor -- but from investments. that's got to be changed. a few things that can be done: we have now a deferral system so that the multinational corporations who invest overseas -- if they make a million dollars in profits overseas -- they don't have to pay any of their taxes unless they bring their money back into this country. when they don't pay their taxes, the average american pays the taxes for them. not only that, but it robs this country of jobs, because instead of coming back with that million dollars and creating a shoe factory, say in new hampshire or vermont, if the company takes the money down to italy and --
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and builds a shoe factory, they don't have to pay any taxes on the money. another thing is a system called disc which was originally designed, proposed by mr. nixon, to encourage exports. this permits a company to create a dummy corporation, to export their products, and then not to pay the full amount of taxes on them. this costs our government about $1.4 billion a year. and when those rich corporations don't pay that tax, the average american taxpayer pays it for 'em. another one that's that's very important is the is the business deductions, jet airplanes, first class travel, the fifty--dollar martini lunch. the average working person can't -- can't take advantage of that, but the -- the wealthier people can. another system is where h -- a dentist can invest money in say, raising cattle and can put in a
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hundred thousand dollars of his own money, borrow nine hundred thousand dollars -- nine hundred mi-- thousand dollars -- that makes a million -- and mark off a great amount of of loss through that procedure. there was one example, for instance, where somebody produced pornographic movies. they put in $30 thousand of their own money and got a hundred and twenty thousand dollars in tax savings. well, these special kinds of programs have -- have robbed the average taxpayer and have benefited those who are powerful, and who can employ lobbyists, and who can have their cpas and their lawyers to help them benefit from the roughly eight thousand pages of the tax code. the average american person can't do it. you can't hire a lobbyist out of unemployment compensation checks. ms. drew: governor, to follow up on your answer. in order for any kind of tax relief to really be felt by the
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middle and lower--income people mr. carter: yes. you need about, according to congressional committees on this, you need about $10 billion. now you listed some things -- the deferral on foreign income as estimated: that would save about $500 million. disc, you said, was about 1.4 billion. the estimate of the outside, if you eliminated all tax shelters, is 5 billion. so where else would you raise the revenue to provide this tax relief -- would you, in fact, do away with all business deductions, and what other kinds of preferences would you do away with? mr. carter: no, i wouldn't do away with all business deductions. i think that would be a -- a very serious mistake. but if -- if you could just do away with the ones that are unfair, you could lower taxes for everyone. i would never do anything that would increase the taxes for those who work for a living, or who are presently required to list all their income. what i wanna do is not to raise taxes, but to eliminate loopholes. and this is the point of my first statistics that i gave you -- that -- that the present tax benefits that have been carved
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out over a long period of years -- fifty years -- by sharp tax lawyers and by lobbyists have benefited just the rich. these programs that i described to you earlier -- the tax deferrals for overseas, the disc, and the tax shelters, they only apply to people in the $50 thousand--a--year bracket or up, and i think this is the very best way to approach it. it's to make sure that everybody pays taxes on the income that they earn and make sure that you take whatever savings there is from the higher income levels and give it to the lower-- and middle--income families. mr. newman: president ford. mr. ford: governor carter's answer tonight does not coincide with the answer that he gave in an interview to the associated press a week or so ago. in that interview governor carter indicated that he would raise the taxes on those in the medium or middle--income
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brackets or higher. now if you take the medium or middle--income taxpayer -- that's about $14 thousand per person -- governor carter has indicated, publicly, in an interview that he would increase the taxes on about 50 percent of the working people of this country. i think the way to get tax equity in this country is to give tax relief to the middle--income people who have an income from roughly $8 thousand up to twenty--five or thirty thousand dollars. they have been short--changed as we have taken ten million taxpayers off the tax rolls in the last eight years, and as we have added to the minimum tax provision to make all people pay more taxes. i believe in tax equity for the middle--income taxpayer, increasing the personal exemption. mr. carter wants to increase taxes for roughly half of the taxpayers of this country.
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now, the governor has also played a little fast and loose with the facts about vetoes. the records show that president roosevelt vetoed an average of fifty--five bills a year. president truman vetoed on the average, while he was president, about thirty--eight bills a year. i understand that governor carter, when he was governor of georgia, vetoed between thirty--five and forty bills a year. my average in two years is twenty--six. but in the process of that we have saved h -- $9 billion. and one final comment, governor carter talks about the tax bills and all of the inequities that exist in the present law. i must remind him the democrats have controlled the congress for the last twenty--two years and they wrote all the tax bills. mr. newman: mr. reynolds. mr. reynolds: i suspect that h -- we could continue on this tax argument for some time. but i'd like to move on to
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another area. mr. president, everybody seems to be running against washington this year. and i'd like to raise two coincidental events and ask you whether you think perhaps this may have a bearing on the attitude throughout the country. the house ethics committee has just now ended its investigation of daniel schorr, after several months and many thousands of dollars, trying to find out how he obtained and caused to be published a report of the congress that probably is the property of the american people. at the same time. the senate select committee on standards and conduct has voted not really to begin an investigation of a united states senator because of allegations against him that he may have been receiving corporate funds illegally over a period of years. do you suppose, sir, that events like this contribute to the feeling in the country that maybe there's something wrong in washington, and i don't mean just in the executive branch but throughout the whole government?
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mr. ford: there is a considerable anti--washington feeling throughout the country. but i think the feeling is misplaced. in the last two years, we have restored integrity in the white house, and we've set high standards in the executive branch of the government. the anti--washington feeling, in my opinion, ought to be focused on the congress of the united states. for example, this congress, very shortly, will spend a billion dollars a year for its housekeeping, its salaries, its expenses and the like. it -- the next congress will probably be the first billion--dollar congress in the history of the united states. i don't think the american people are getting their money's worth from the majority party that run this congress. we, in addition, see that in the last four years the number of employees hired by the congress has gone up substantial much
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more than the gross national product, much more than any other increase throughout our society. congress is hiring people by the droves, and the cast as a result has gone up. and i don't see any improvement in the performance of the congress under the present leadership. so it seems to me instead of the anti--washington feeling being aimed at everybody in washington, it seems to me that the focus should be where the problem is, which is the congress of the united states, and particularly the majority in the congress. they spend too much money on themselves. they have too many employees. there's some question about their morality.
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it seems to me that in this election, the focus should not be on the executive branch but the corrections should come as the voters vote for their members of the house of representatives or for their united states senator. that's where the problem is and i hope there'll be some corrective action taken so we can get some new leadership in the congress of the united states. mr. reynolds: mr. president, if i may follow up. i think you've made it plain that you take a dim view of the majority in the congress. isn't it quite likely, sir, that you will have a democratic congress in the next session, if you are elected president? and hasn't the country a right to ask whether you can get along with that congress, or whether we'll have continued confrontation? mr. ford: well, it seems to me that we have a chance -- the republicans -- to get a majority in the house of representatives. we will make some gains in the united states senate. so there will be different ratios in the house, as well as in the senate, and as president i will be able to work with that
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congress. but let me take the other side of the coin, if i might. supposing we had -- had a democratic congress for the last two years and we'd had governor carter as president. he has, in effect, said that he would agree with all of -- he would disapprove of the vetoes that i have made, and would have added significantly to expenditures and the deficit in the federal government. i think it would be contrary to one of the basic concepts in our system of government -- a system of checks and balances. we have a democratic congress today, and fortunately we've had a republican president to check their excesses with my vetoes. if we have a democratic congress next year, and a president who wants to spend an additional one hundred billion dollars a year, or maybe two hundred billion dollars a year, with more
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programs, we will have in my judgment, greater deficits with more spending, more dangers of inflation. i think the american people want a republican president to check on any excesses that come out of the next congress, if it is a democratic congress. mr. newman: governor carter. mr. carter: well, it's not a matter of republican and democrat. it's a matter of leadership or no leadership. president eisenhower worked with a democratic congress very well. even president nixon, because he was a strong leader at least, worked with a democratic congress very well. mr. ford has vetoed, as i said earlier, four times as many bills per year as mr. nixon. mr. ford quite often puts forward a program just as a public relations stunt, and never tries to put it through the congress by working with the congress. i think under presidents for-- nixon and eisenhower they passed about 60 to 75 percent of their
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legislation. this year mr. ford will not pass more than 26 percent of all the legislative proposals he puts forward. this is government by stalemate, and we've seen almost a complete breakdown in the proper relationship between the president, who represents this country, and the congress, who collectively also represent this country. we've had republican presidents before who've tried to run against a democratic congress. and i don't think it's the congress is mr. ford's opponent; but if if -- if he insists that that i be responsible for the democratic congress, of which i'm -- have not been a part, then i think it's only fair that he be responsible for the nixon administration in its entirety, of which he was a part. that, i think, is a good balance. but the point is, that -- that a president ought to lead this country. mr. ford, so far as i know, except for avoiding another watergate, has not accomplished one single major program for
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this country. and there's been a constant squabbling between the president and the congress, and that's not the way this country ought to be run. i might go back to one other thing. mr. ford has misquoted an ap news story that was in error to begin with. that story reported several times that i would lower taxes for low and middle--income families and that correction was delivered to the white house and i am sure that the president knows about this correction, but he still insists on repeating an erroneous statement. mr. newman: president ford, governor carter, we no longer have enough time for two complete sequences of questions. we have only about six minutes left for questions and answers. for that reason we will drop the follow--up questions at this point but each candidate will still be able to respond to the other's answers. to the extent that you can, gentlemen, please keep your remarks brief. mr. gannon. mr. gannon: governor carter, one important part of the government's economic policy apparatus we haven't talked about is the federal reserve
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board. i'd like to ask you something about what you've said and that is that you believe that a president ought to have a chairman of the federal reserve board whose views are compatible with his own. based on the record of the last few years, would you say that your views are compatible with those of chairman arthur burns? and if not, would you seek his resignation if you are elected? mr. carter: what i have said is that the president ought to have a chance to appoint a chairman of the federal reserve board to have a coterminous term; in other words, both of 'em serve the same four -- four years. the congress can modify the supply of money by modifying the income tax laws. the president can modify the economic structure of a country by public statements and general attitudes in the budget that he proposes. the federal reserve has an independent status that ought to be preserved; i think that mr. burns did take a typical, erroneous republican attitude in the 1973 year when inflation was so high.
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they assumed that the inflation rate was because of excessive demand and therefore put into effect tight constraint on the economy, very high interest rates, which is typical also of the republican administration, tried to increase tax payments by individuals, and cut the tax payments by corporations. i would have done it opposite. i think the problem should've been addressed by increasing productivity, by having put -- put people back to work so they could purchase more goods, lower income taxes on individuals, perhaps raise them, if necessary, on corporations in comparison. but mr. burns in that respect made a very serious mistake. i would not wanna destroy the -- the independence of the federal reserve board. but i do think we ought to have a cohesive economic policy with at -- at least the chairman of the federal reserve board and the president's terms being the same and letting the congress, of course, be the third entity with with independence subject
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only to the president's veto. mr. newman: president ford, your response. mr. ford: the chairman of the federal reserve board should be independent. fortunately, he has been during democratic as well as republican administrations. as the result in the last two years we have had a responsible monetary policy. the federal reserve board indicated that the supply of money would be held between four to four and a half and seven and seven and a half. they have done a good job in integrating the money supply with the fiscal policy of the executive and legislative branches of the government. it would be catastrophic if the chairman of the federal reserve board became the tool of the political party that was in power. it's important for our future h -- economic security that that job be nonpolitical and separate from the executive and the legislative branches.
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mr. newman: mrs. drew. ms. drew: mr. president, the real problem with the fbi and, in fact, all of the intelligence agencies is there are no real laws governing them. such laws as there are tend to be vague and open--ended. now, you have issued some executive orders, but we've learned that leaving these agencies to executive discretion and direction can get them and, in fact, the country in a great deal of trouble. one president may be a decent man, the next one might not be. so, what do you think about trying to write in some more protection by getting some laws governing these agencies? mr. ford: you are familiar, of course, with the fact that i am the first president in thirty years who has reorganized the intelligence agencies in the federal government: the cia, the defense intelligence agency, the national security agency and the others. we've done that by executive order. h -- and i think we've tightened it up; we've straightened out their problems that developed over the last few years. it doesn't seem to me that it's
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needed or necessary to have legislation in this particular regard. h -- i have recommended to the congress, however -- i'm sure you're familiar with this -- legislation that would h -- make it h -- very h -- proper in -- in the right way, that the attorney general could go in and get the right for wiretapping under security cases. this was an effort that was made by the attorney general and myself, working with the congress. but even in this area, where i think new legislation would be justified, the congress has not responded. so, i feel in that case, as well as in the reorganization of the intelligence agencies, as i've done, we have to do it by executive order. and i'm glad that we have a good director in george bush.
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we have good executive orders, and the cia and the dia and nasa nsa are now doing a good job under proper supervision. mr. newman: governor carter. mr. carter: well, one of the very serious things that's happened in our government in recent years, and has continued up until now, is a breakdown in the trust among our people in the -- [no audio]
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[no audio] [indiscernible] >> audio has been lost momentarily. [no audio] >> again, the audio from the walnut street theatre has been lost. we hope -- we are trying to restore it.
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we do not know what has happened to it. have lost anes equal number of words. i don't know what it is we're not hearing. i think they have been told sound is lost. i think they have stopped talking. we hope to have it fixed shortly. i wish i could tell you more about it, but that's all i know. >> [indiscernible] here ight say a work planned to say later -- it is
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eastern we will be back with a special program in which we ask the audience in philadelphia -- ask others in the area and whoever we can find, what they think about the debate. scored the most points. our news staff will be ready with that at 11:30 eastern time after a half-hour break for the local news across the country and we will be back with that whatever happens to the audio from the theater at this time and again i do not know what is happening except that nobody is getting it -- it is the same
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everywhere so you needn't change the channels. it is the same on all of them. >> [inaudible] >> -- right? just outsidelobby of the hall. you can't tell us what has happened there can you? >> we do not know what has happened. we are just as surprised as you are. we jumped out here, too. -- so, all we are doing is standing by just the way you are good we expect the debates to go on immediately. whether the debate will have to be canceled or not -- we are isolated here and the problem is not in the theater, the problem
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is in theno, technical trucks outside the auditorium. it is a technical problem. somebody says it is not a conspiracy. >> you do not have a pair of pliers, do you? >> i do not, no. >> if i can make a few comments, we have seen a very lively debate. it seems to me, so far, it seems to me that both candidates 30 much saying the same thing that they have been saying in the early parts of these campaigns making pretty much the same charges but very tough, tougher, sometimes rough tonight, both heavy on the facts to back up their arguments as we knew governor carter intended to come to convince the american public that he did have the knowledge -- ford with the knowledge of his office, president ford
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hasn't strongly defended his economic policies in these debates tonight. he has pointed to the fact that .he improved economy is proof he did this very forcefully paired mr. carter disputed this and one of the tougher segments, charged that ford is insensitive to the plight of the unemployed. we have audio back now? >> [inaudible] >> we still do not have audio back caps off candidates are waiting. they have been told that they are on the air with picture. they are off the air with their voices. president ford announced that he will sign the new tax bill, all 1500 pages even though he said he was the satisfied with some provisions in it.
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the text structure was called a program for the rich and mr. carter also talked about the new federal social programs. he said that he would install the federal programs that he had -- he would choose in favor of balancing the budget. federal spending should go back to tax relief to both men outlined their plans to curb unemployment. he can bring it down to 3%. mr. ford got into the democratic platform saying that with all of the platforms would create 60 new programs which he said would cost $100 billion-$200 billion more.
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richard nixon said the same about programs proposed by the democrats 16 years ago when kennedy was a nominee. and discussed draft evading what the program should be. mr. ford said that he does not believe in any across-the-board pardons, instant saying that he believes that the amnesty program he put forth was adequate in that he would not change it. he wouldr said that grant pardons and insisted that there is a difference between pardons and amnesty. they talked about government reorganization and jimmy carter promised that he would completely reorganize the federal government if he is reelected. the president has looked into the facts and figures of governor carter's record as governor of georgia and at the fact is that governor carter increased the budget and also
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increased the number of state employees. he also said that the present governor of georgia found that the medicaid program was in shambles. concerned,ongress is the republican president charged that the democratic congress had not been working with him. jimmy carter said at the republican presidents have found it possible to work with democratic congress is paired he pointed out that president eisenhower had done this and said that richard nixon was a strong leader and managed to and imposedngress fewer vetoes. tough with very president ford saying, i am not a member of congress, the democratic congress is not under -- you canand so
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blame me for -- i will blame you for watergate. we have the presidential press secretary talking now. >> i do not know any more about an event you. we are down to the last few minutes and the sound cut out but i do not know the explanation. >> will it continue? newman was not clear -- >> you have no contingency plan? >> you are supposed to be the one with a contingency plan. we do not know what happened. we will like those putting on the debates decide to do. their,were sitting in you, yourself -- the speechwriter -- what is your impression? we think, we talked, we had a
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little time to talk and we pulled each other and if can to the same conclusion that is that it was a victory for the president. partisan, i am not surprised at her you saying that. is this debate tougher >>? type of the president came across the i agree the questions were tough and the reporters had done research but i think the president came across as being in command of the situation, in the opportunity through the questions to demonstrate experience, his background, knowledge, and ability. >> the same could be said for governor carter. we haven't had all of these debates yet. how much time did we get -- 12-15 minutes? >> could some provision be made
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for the viewers to hear what was left out? said from thent beginning and the reason that he wanted to do the debates in the first place and the reason he wanted them to be done a great length was because he felt the time was needed to explore issues in depth and i think they were explored in depth tonight. >> thank you very much. who i other side, a man think will say that he thinks that jimmy carter was as clear a mr. ford and that is the democratic party chairman, robert strauss. it was a good night for jimmy carter. was either made particularly nervous? i thought this -- they both handled their questions will. both found theey
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questions will. i thought governor carter looked contrary -- responsive -- i think governor carter clearly demonstrated what he wanted to demonstrate, inability to deal with issues facing this country. you calling winners and losers, robert strauss? >> i thought they were too winners, i thought the american and i also think that both handled their questions well -- i think that governor carter -- >> i understand we are back to the debate -- [indiscernible] >> thank you for the kind words. >> [inaudible] we thought we had it but we
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still do not know what is wrong or where. we hoped we would have it back but we don't nor do i know if they've located at the debates on enough to make up for the lost time so this will be -- we will all learn whatever we learn together. i don't know anything. and mr. carternt -- >> [inaudible] they are waiting when whatever is wrong, whatever is, it is not in over audio, as you heard just outside the theater, it is in the sound coming from the restroom there and we don't know what the problem is that they are waiting. >> [inaudible]
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>> we are getting a lot of miscellaneous conversations from various places but not the conversation we went there to this into, which was the president and mr. carter, of course. >> [inaudible] heard, a, as you pretty lively debate, each one landing a few blows on the other although i don't think anyone was permanently disabled, politically speaking. much of the argument was about what new programs might be put into effect in the federal establishment in the next term, presidential term, four years, what they would cost and how they are going to be paid. who is going to do the tax rich are goingre
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to pay it all, the middle class -- or if not, who? i must say without offering any opinion, i must say that question was not fully answered. perhaps some of the audience might be left unsatisfied on that score. on one question was dealt with firmly and decisively was that of invaders -- even eight or's and military deserters. ford thought the government should not go any further than it has already gone in his administration whereas carter things that it should. his point was that if nixon could be pardoned, why not the even readers. -- evaders. accepted and some didn't.
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we are outside the theater and can still be heard from all of the participants inside cannot. baker, mr.ith jim baker, let me ask you this, did things go according to game plan tonight? how hard did the president prepare? was he nervous? i last talked to the president last night and he was not nervous at all. relaxed and self-assured and from looking at him when he stage, a would be my judgment that he was quite relaxed and confident. >> any surprises? >> i think the president did and at some the job and he was in command and i think he answered the questions. again, tell us about the
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preparation? to president ford have people bounce questions to him? >> there was some of that but he worked hard, he worked on his preparation and he was prepared. preparation, were the questions that you try to brainstorm -- >> there were some that we anticipated very well. >> what issue think president got out of agreeing to debate? he is the incumbent with all of the powers of office. >> jimmy carter was not well known in his positions were even less well known and that is one of the major reasons that we wanted this debate, so that governor carter would have to take a position on the issue in the president's positions are well known >> ion going to come in with you, leslie.
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this is jimmy carter's press secretary who is about to go on the air with cbs. think hek you, had you did tonight? >> to reopen a tonight was the american people. i thought gardner -- was very impressive -- clear command of the issues of the facts and the specifics that were involved in this discussion and i guess in a debate between president ford in the democratic congress, president ford won in a debate between the two presidential contenders is no doubt in my mind that there was a clear advantage on the way toward in terms of giving direct to the issues in question -- >> he was pretty tough on president ford he said the president for was insensitive -- insensitive to the promise of the unemployed and if he was going to be blamed for the democratic congress he ought to be blamed for being part of watergate -- >> [speaking simultaneously]
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that if the unjust charge was made that he was responsible, then perhaps it would be a tongue-in-cheek -- appropriate -- to ask them to accept responsibility for the previous and ministration did >> had you think these debates compared to 1960. do you think they were as interesting or as decisive? >> there is no way in the world that i could compare and my pointed view these debates to 1960i was a junior in high school and i was kennedy -- next in today's -- as a matter of fact, there were questions about how to size debates were then -- i don't think elections are decided on one night, it was certainly find -- >> just give us a real quick assessment of how your candidate? >> i thought he did very well. he showed a tremendous command of the specifics of the details of the federal government.
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i think he made his points directly to comparison between the republican rhetoric and their record in the white house came through as very directly so i am very happy -- >> thank you very much -- >> mr. power we have asked -- he says he doesn't know what went on -- do you know what the microphones went off? >> i would like to know. this of course to place right in the middle of governor carter's rebuttal and i certainly would like to know i have -- technical problem sometimes happen wiggling i ask that because it is my expense in a situation that there is always a fairly held a lot of people that although those conspiracy to cut them off -- we have an prefer that she was to simply technical foul of the stars of a paternity is my current liquid not only to have you could notice the subject that i know of have it -- not as far as i know -- tell me this -- i think dying, you know, perhaps it shows that everybody makes mistakes every now and then -- >> even the network -- >> that is right -- >> let me ask you this -- >> -- criticize the network --
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>> how much consultation did you have and senior members of the carter staff have with jimmy carter in preparation for these debates? was he anxious? how much risk you to get a? was a nervous? i know here going to say he was causing cucumber ok but that's about what he did -- what did he do to our before he came here -- >> i don't know. -- 4-5the mrs. carter hours is afternoon -- i didn't bother him and neither did anybody else as far as i know. he has had to live in three days of rest did i suppose that is what a judge -- aat was by his performance in thought he had himself very well, obviously, as i wanted, has primarily had to himself. we have not engaged in reversals and we haven't done a lot of fancy could we have given into the do as he wished privately to study to read, reflect, think, and i think that off this evening. >> a lot has been written in his
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last 4-5 days that jimmy carter's campaign is losing steam. , the illinoise polling showing gerald ford had, a general feeling among the press that is covering jimmy carter that his campaign may be losing steam. >> fortunately for most campaigns, the election is held amongst the american people not on the day-to-day opinions of whatever they are -- the press that happens to be covering the campaign. we have run a very aggressive campaign. submittedarter has himself to cross examinations for the past 18 months. in the circumstances, there is no way that you can shield yourself from -- [indiscernible] we think that in the longer the american people would rather have a candidate and president that goes out and takes the hard knocks and the tough questions and answers -- answers them as responsibly and directly as you can even though he might make a
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mistake every now and then. >> thank you very much parent press secretary for governor carter. now i think that to david? is overher the debate -- is that right? the debate -- the league of women voters has decided not to go ahead with any more of the debate. is now 11: 15 in the east, scheduled to end 50 minutes ago and ended him as the half hour ago because of some sound failure inside the hall. we do not know at the moment what happened or why know exactly where as i have set our sound from the lobby of the theater and the onset of the theater has been normal and still is the problem is sometime inside the hall or around the podium -- that is all we know. so, again, the debate is over and that is it. we have had some discussion -- we have heard from some prominent democrats and republicans each of home thought his side one in gave his reasons
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why. is to return to the air in about a half-hour for a somewhat more extensive >> -- [inaudible] >> we will be back later and in the meantime catherine neck and is talking to mrs. carter -- catherine? just wondering -- everybody has been following the sudden break up in the debate into you think this will have a negative effect on what is going on? thinkl, i certainly [indiscernible] that >> [indiscernible] >> do you have any idea what he is going to say? at it briefly.ed i have been in texas all day. i glanced at it but i do not know. >> but have you been campaigning have a notice whether or not the interview in playboy is having any effect on the campaign?
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puttingnk people are that into perspective -- we haven't heard anything about it tonight. it was just such a completely [indiscernible] completely out of context and i think everybody -- there's been so much publicity that it enables event jim is talking about his christian religion -- it did not understand what christianity is. >> did you iron things out with mr. johnson today? >> i had a very good meeting with mrs. johnson. she received me at the library [inaudible] -- >> thank you very much. >> [indiscernible] well, we are told the debate has ended the president ford and governor carter are still waiting. all we know about the breakdown in the sound that it is somewhere between the
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microphones use eclipse to their neckties and the network truck outside the hall. beyond that, i cannot -- i don't know -- i don't the community knows the moment if anybody did they would fix it. don't know whether they -- i can tell you -- we don't know if they are going to continue the debate if the debate and weight for the sound -- newman is saying something no doubt interesting but i don't have the faintest idea because i cannot hear it -- >> [inaudible] occurred -- mr. newman: failure in the broadcasting of the debate, it occurred twenty-seven minutes ago. the fault has been dealt with and we want to thank president ford and governor carter for being so patient and understanding while this delay went on. we very much regret the technical failure that lost the sound as it -- as it was leaving this theater.
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it occurred during governor carter's response to what would have been and what was the last question put to the candidates. that question went to president ford. it dealt with the control of government intelligence agencies. governor carter was making that response and had very nearly finished it. he wil1 conclude his response now after which president ford and governor carter will make their closing statements. governor. mr. carter: there has been too much government secrecy and not not enough respect for the personal privacy of american citizens. mr. newman: it is now time for the closing statements, which are to be up to four minutes long. governor carter, by the same toss of the coin that directed the first question to you, you
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are to go first now. mr. carter: well, tonight we've had a chance to talk a lot about the past. but i think it's time to talk about the future. our nation in the last eight years has been divided as never before. it's a time for unity. it's a time to draw ourselves together: to have a president and a congress that can work together with mutual respect for a change, cooperating for a change, in the open for a change, so the people can understand their own government. it's time for government, industry, labor, manufacturing, agriculture, education, other entities in our society to cooperate. and it's a time for government to understand and to cooperate with our people. for a long time our american citizens have been excluded, sometimes misled, sometimes have been lied to. this is not compatible with the purpose of our nation. i believe in our country. it needs to be competent. the government needs to be well--managed, efficient, economical, we need to have a government that's sensitive to
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our people's needs -- to those who are poor, who don't have adequate health care, who have been cheated too long with our tax programs, who've been out of jobs, whose families have been torn apart. we need to restore the faith and the trust of the american people in their own government. in addition to that, we've suffered because we haven't had leadership in this administration. we've got a government of stalemate. we've lost the vision of what our country can and ought to be. this is not the america that we've known in the past. it's not the america that we have to have in the future. i don't claim to know all the answers. but i've got confidence in my country. our economic strength is still there. our system of government -- in spite of vietnam, cambodia, cia, watergate -- is still the best system of government on earth. and the greatest resource of all are the two hundred and fifteen million americans who have
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within us the strength, the character, the intelligence, the experience, the patriotism, the idealism, the compassion, the sense of brotherhood on which we can rely in the future to restore the greatness to our country we ought not to be excluded from our government anymore. we need a president who can go in -- who derives his strength from the people. i owe the special interests nothing. i owe everything to you, the people of this country. and i believe that we can bind our wounds. i believe that we can work together. and i believe that if we can tap the tremendous untapped reservoir of innate strength in this country, that we can once again have a government as good as our people, and let the world know what we still know and hope for -- that we still live in the greatest and the strongest and the best country on earth.
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mr. newman: president ford. mr. ford: on november second all of you will make a very, very important decision. one of the major issues in this campaign is trust. a president should never promise more than he can deliver and a president should always deliver everything that he's promised. a president can't be all things to all people. a president should be the same thing to all people. another issue in this campaign, governor carter has endorsed the democratic platform, which calls for more spending, bigger deficits, more inflation or mare taxes. governor carter has embraced the record of the present congress,
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dominated by his political party. it calls for more of the same. governor carter in his acceptance speech called for more and more programs, which means more and more government. i think the real issue in this campaign, and that which you must decide on november second, is whether you should vote for his promise or my performance in two years in the white house. on the fourth of july we had a wonderful two hundredth birthday -- for our great country. it was a superb occasion. it was a glorious day. in the first century of our nation's history our forefathers gave us the finest form of government in the history of
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mankind. in the second century of our nation's history, our forefathers developed the most productive industrial nation in the history of the globe. our third century should be the century of individual freedom for all our two hundred and fifteen million americans today and all that join us. in the last few years government has gotten bigger and bigger; industry has gotten larger and larger; labor unions have gotten bigger and bigger; and our children have been the victims of mass education. we must make this next century the century of the individual. we should never forget that a government big enough to give us everything we want is a government big enough to take from us everything we have.
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the individual worker in the plants throughout the united states should not be a small cog in a big machine. the member of a labor union must have his rights strengthened and broadened and our children in their education should have an opportunity to improve themselves based on their talents and their abilities. my mother and father, during the depression, worked very hard to give me an opportunity to do better in our great country. your mothers and fathers did the same thing for you and others. betty and i have worked very hard to give our children a brighter future in the united
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states, our beloved country. you and others in this great country have worked hard and done a great deal to give your children and your grandchildren the blessings of a better america. i believe we can all work together to make the individuals in the future have more and all of us working together can build a better america. mr. newman: thank you president ford. thank you governor carter. our thanks also to the questioners and to the audience in this theater. we much regret the technical failure that caused a delay in the broadcast of the debate. we believe, however, that everyone will agree that it did not detract from the effectiveness of the debate or from its fairness. the next presidential debate is to take place on wednesday, october sixth, in san francisco eastern daylight time. the topics are to be foreign and defense issues. as with all three debates
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between the presidential candidates and the one between the vice-presidential candidates, it is being arranged by the league of women voters education fund in the hope of promoting a wider and better informed participation by the american people in the election in november. now, from the walnut street theater in philadelphia, good night. once more, we will have a government of, for, and by the people. .> we are stronger together announcer: on the road to the white house with the first presidential debate monday night, live from hofstra university hempstead, new york, eastern. at 7:30 then the predebate briefing for the audience.
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and i a.m., live coverage of the and 9:00 a.m., live coverage of the bay. listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> both bush and obama to some extent were prisoners of situations they did not create. willing participants in the existing busy game. >> tonight on q and a, author and washington post columnist robert simpson talks about his columns on business and economic issues and the u.s. economic performance under president obama. >> my opinion is not so high because he pursued policies that essentially were aimed at buttressing his reputation and his legacy and it seemed to me

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